Order of conversation
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Conversation (Model II)
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Impact on the recipient / Notes
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Conversation led by
Government with the
people
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Government:
Over time I notice citizens engaging in increasing self- gratifying habits such as resorting to taking
drugs or consuming hard liquor. I interpret that to mean that you are not concerned about what
is happening around us. I am assuming that you are not as concerned with the scope of the
events we are dealing with this disease across the city, the nation and the region.
I understand when something like that happens, there is something happening in your life that is
important for you and I am not fully seeing or understanding it. Something that I am missing
here.
Would you help me understand what is leading you in choosing to take the action the way you
have here?
People:
Yes, there is a reason. I am resorting to drugs and liquor as a way to deal with a growing sense of
numbing pain when I see my loved ones (my wife, my children,may parents) growing thin from
not eating well and eventually starving to death.
It is not easy to standby and watch them feeling helpless that there is nothing I can do to help
them as the traps we were in get deeper. And it looked like there was no one out there to help us
out!
Government:
Yes, I hear what you are saying. And I understand why you do what you did. That would make
sense.
I could and would do the same if I was in your shoes. Now hlep me understand when you did not
see me assist you, what did that mean for you?
People:
When I did not see you assist me our of the trap I was in, it felt to me that in your eyes I (and that
includes most of us who are poor) was not important to you or to society. Succumbing to
drinking was part of the same story and allowed me to forget the feelings I was feeling for the
moment.
Now I do need to check something with you. I mentioned the way I was looking at the situation
included that you were not seeing us as important to you. Is that how you see it too? Or do you
see it differently?
Government:
Thank you for checking-in that worldview with us. We do not see you as not important. In fact,
in our view, the work we do for the people is very important for us. One of the greatest fear we
have is if we do not do a good job, we see ourselves as a failure! And failure is not something I can
tolerate.
People:
What is leading you to conclude that the work you do can become a failure?
Government:
Well, in my mind, to deal with the scale of problems we are facing with HIV/AIDs and poverty
requires everyone of us to bring our hands and minds together to make a clear dent in this issue.
This is a work that goes beyond just the government doing its part but the poor and rich citizens
working side-by-side in making many of the changes possible. Right now I cannot figure what is
getting in the way of that cooperation happening more smoothly. Can you?
Would you be willing to assist in finding out from the citizens what is getting in the way of this
happening?
People:
Yes let's setup a meeting with them shall we?
Government:
Yes, we shall. Thank you for making this possible.
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Share the "data" one has selected
and inquire into the meaning of the
data for the other person. How am I
interpreting your behavior? State
your conclusions / views.
What assumptions am I making
about their motives? Explain your
reasoning.
Illustrate with examples (data)
What is s/he up against that would
lead her to that stance? I need to
understand. How did I hear what
they said? Did they something I
missed?
Ask for the other’s conclusions /
views. Ask for the other’s reasoning
Ask for examples (data)
Inquire into the frame leading one
to select the action that the other
party has chosen.
Clarify if the frame is the same or
different for the other party.
Assume it is not the same. Check
for confirmation or dis-confirmation
of the frame.
How might I be contributing?
What is my framing?
It is in suspending (holding it for
others to see and test that
contributes to both (and other's)
learning (about the part of the
reality we could not see or
experience) and shaping actions
that take a step forward for both
sides.
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Conversations led by the
people with the citizens and
co-attended by Government
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People:
Thank you for meeting us here. We started this conversation to understand better something we
do not have a clear picture of from your viewpoint of reality.
In our conversations with Government we learned that what appears as not everyone of our
concerns can be addressed, the fear that grips government is if they do not succeed, we would all
fail. We learnt of course that the government does indeed see as important in their eyes when at
first we believed they did not. We realize now this is not true. In fact, that is the only thing they
cared.
We also learnt that the scale of this problem requires that all of us, people, government and
citizens need to work together in sorting and turning around many of the problems and challenges
that we see in our path.
However when we see you from our point of view, it seems that as citizens you appear aloof and
distant in wanting to come together in solving the national and global issues. We see the impact
of such indifference as impact on the climate, resulting in turn with droughts, poverty and
starvation leading to us succumbing to drugs and drinks and eventually to HIV/AIDs. Is this how
you see it or do you see it diffierently?
Citizens:
Yes, I hear what you are saying. I had not understood the impact of my actions on you and
eventually it comes back to affect me and create more of the very fear we are trying to avoid.
Would you help me understand when you see these happen, what does that mean for you?
People:
When I did not see you assist me and we see the problems and challenges are mounting for us, it
felt to me that you did not see me as important to you. That we were the insignificant lot!
Now I do need to check something with you. I mentioned the way I was looking at the situation
included you were not seeing us as important to you. Is that how you see it too? Or do you see
it differently?
Citizens:
Thank you for checking-in your worldview with us. We do not see you as not important. In fact,
in our view, we were engrossed in protecting ourselves as we felt if we did not do that, no one
would help us and we would be in trouble.
It surprises me to see that both of us were feeling the same way, and we did not realize that.
When we saw the diseases mounting it felt that death was at our doorstep and it looked like it was
a very difficult battle to fight. I feared for the safety of my wife, children and loved ones. We
turned away and paid attention to ourselves so as to ensure the safety and security of each one
of them.
We now see that doing so, has made the situation worse in the long-run. We need to learn how
to do this together otherwise, things can only become harder for all of us.
People:
What would need to happen so that it would make it easier for us to learn to work together?
Citizen:
Well, if you can help us figure what would help to ensure the safety and security of those who are
not yet infected and we can learn better what we might do to prevent more transmissions, I am
sure more of us would learn to come out of our shells and learn to work together with all.
People:
Yes, we shall have a conversation on how that might happen and learn over time to reduce the
rate of transmission of the diseases. Meanwhile, I look forward to working with you and the
Government to turn around many of the challenges and issues that we are seeing as a country,
together.
Government:
This sounds like a very productive conversation. It feels to me we are learning to work together,
the very thing that needs to happen not to fight the disease and its impact but to turn around
one situation or challenge after another. By us learning to have conversations more productively,
I am confident we can make that happen together. Thank you.
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